[00:01:15] – Frankie
Hello! You’re listening to the Doing It For The Kids podcast, where we swear a bit too much and talk a bit too fast about freelance life with kids in the mix. I’m Frankie and this is Steve.

[00:01:30] – Steve
Hello. Yes, each episode we take a question from the Doing It For The Kids Community. Do our best to answer it, but we start each episode by looking back at the last one. Last time we were talking about…

[00:01:39] – Frankie
We were talking about when your child starts school and you suddenly have ‘more time’, in inverted commas. And what to do with it.

[00:01:46] – Steve
Susannah Dale said,

“I’m definitely still figuring this out. I’ve spent the first year of school living in denial! I’ve still got one in nursery as well.

But what throws me is the random inset days, which are always on a Friday and/or Monday, which are normally work days for me and suddenly become not work days. Also, Scotland has made up a holiday called ‘September Weekend’, where the kids just get a long weekend and no-one knows why. I didn’t grow up in Scotland, so for the second year running, I’ve forgotten this is a thing!

To really put the nail in the self-employed mum coffin, I’ve been refused on excusal of jury service which falls during the October half term. Instead, they’ve offered me £6 an hour to pay for childcare.”

What??

[00:02:32] – Frankie
Yeah, that’s not going to cover it, I don’t think.

Also, one of my number one tips for anybody signing up for a private nursery is do not put your child in on a Monday or a Friday! If you’re signing up for, like, maybe two or three days a week, or one day even — make sure it’s not a Monday or a Friday, because if it’s not an inset day for an older child, it’ll be a bloody bank holiday and you haven’t got that childcare.

Sarah Matthews says,

“Love this episode. Very timely for me as I now have both kids at school! *Emoji* …”

I don’t know which emoji that is. Confetti? Confetti emoji?

[00:03:06] – Steve
Oh my God. I let one of those confetti cannons off in our house. Do you remember? You sent it to me!

[00:03:12] – Frankie
Yes, I do.

[00:03:13] – Steve
Then we moved house. Months later, there was still confetti in this house. It moved with us.

[00:03:21] – Frankie
Sarah continues…

“Definitely agree with the boundary setting and the fact there’s not as much time as you think there will be, but it is still a game changer. I keep forgetting that I haven’t got to squeeze all my work into three days each week. And when I remember I’ve actually got five, it’s like that feeling when you wake up and think it’s a Monday, but it’s actually the weekend.”

[00:03:38] – Steve
Leanne Milcham says,

“I don’t really have any advice, but I always feel bad that I can’t get going in the morning after the school run. So I really appreciate your comment, Frankie, about the draining school run and the recovery time. Just what I needed to hear today.”

[00:03:52] – Frankie
You’re welcome.

Craig Williams says,

“Probably not the feedback you expected, but I have said for years that all trousers should have some elastic in them.”

[00:06:44] – Steve
In that case, let’s take a question from Kiemia Farrow, who is a graphic designer.

Kiemia asks,

“Hi, Frankie and Steve.

I’ve been full-time freelance since 2020 and now have over 15 years of agency, in-house, and freelance experience behind me. I charge by the hour and have some fabulous clients who trust the process and appreciate the time sheets I keep when I invoice them at the end of the month. I never quote up front. In fact, I refuse to do so because I’m so bad at working out how long projects might take.

However, my question is — how do I know what my hourly rate should be? I never hear anyone discuss their hourly rate, and I’m finding it quite a challenge to figure out if I’m doing it right or not.

I currently charge £50 an hour for existing clients, and all new clients, I have moved to a rate of £65 an hour. I have had no one complain or question it. I have not lost a client from it. But at the same time, I don’t want to run the risk of losing a client or scaring away potential new clients if I am way off the mark in terms of pricing.

How is everyone working this stuff out?

Thank you for the fabulous work you both do.

Keep it up. Kiemia.”

[00:07:56] – Frankie
So much to unpack, so little time.

[00:08:00] – Steve
Alright.

[00:08:00] – Frankie
Alright!

[00:08:01] – Steve
So we could have a debate about project pricing versus hourly pricing, but let’s park that. That’s not the question.

[00:08:07] – Frankie
That’s another episode.

[00:08:08] – Steve
The question is, how can you figure out your hourly rate?

[00:08:12] – Frankie
First of all, there is no equation. I want to say to you, “take X, times it by Y, minus three”. But there is no one size fits all for working out your hourly rate. And while we can all agree on best practice or things to consider to work into your hourly rate, there isn’t a secret that you don’t know about that everybody else is using, is my point.

[00:08:34] – Steve
I guess at a very basic level though, you can do some maths.

[00:08:39] – Frankie
Yes.

[00:08:39] – Steve
And that includes…

How much do you need to make? So all of your outgoings, both in your life and in your business, what is that adding up to? Your childcare, your food? You need to know what you need to be making in order to cover that.

Then you can start to think about, how many hours am I going to work a week? And be realistic about that, bearing in mind the time that you might do for marketing and other things. This should be easier for you because you’ve already been sending out timesheets. So look at that stuff and think, how many hours am I happy doing a week? How many hours am I able to do a week?

Then transport that across a year, bearing in mind the school holidays, days off sick, all of that. And you can start to do some basic maths in order to start to think about what your day or hourly rate might be, right?

[00:09:32] – Frankie
Yeah. And on top of that, like you just said about the sick days and stuff, you have to account for the fact that your tax comes out of that rate, that you don’t get holiday pay, that you do not get sick pay. You know, all of that stuff that you would get as an employee is no longer available to you. And therefore, your hourly rate also has to account for the things that you’re not receiving, that you have to ultimately pay for in one way or another, whether that’s through insurance or whatever. But you need that extra money to accommodate life, basically, and the things that come with that. Especially when you have small children. So even if you’re not sick, your kids might be sick, etc.

[00:10:08] – Steve
Within all of those outgoings, remember to try and think about saving for a pension.

And do you want to set money aside to pay for a holiday or childcare in the holidays or whatever that looks like? Again, that needs to be added on top of whatever your basic outgoings might be.

[00:10:30] – Frankie
Yes, you can do the maths targeted and be logical about it. But then I do think on top of that, there is a lot of just gut feeling and…

What am I worth? How much experience have I got? What can I create for my clients that other designers can’t do? What can I do for their business that they can’t do internally or personally? What is that worth to people? That’s worth something. And that element of it is basically potentially endless.

So then you have to kind of go through that process with yourself. And you could involve other people in that — you could ask previous clients about value or how much they’re willing to pay. You could do a bit of a market research thing, etc, to help those conversations with yourself about what you feel you are worth.

And then the next step after that is then almost cross-checking with your peers or working out what industry rates are to a certain extent. You know, one of your fears is you might become too expensive and therefore lose out on work. You don’t want to necessarily push it so far that that happens. So it’s about working out your value, but equally working out where that sits in relation to other people in your field to kind of come to a comfortable conclusion.

So frankly, there is tonnes to consider. But then I think ultimately a lot of it is finger in the air when it really comes to the numbers. Do you know what I mean? You could only be so-, what is the word I’m looking for…

[00:12:00] – Steve
Exact?

[00:12:00] – Frankie
You can only be so, like-,

[00:12:02] – Steve
Scientific?

[00:12:03] – Frankie
Yeah, scientific about it. You can. I’d say maybe 60, 70%, but that other bit is ultimately up to you, really.

There’s an element of what your goals are as well. So if the goal is to work less hours at a higher rate and take more time, you know… Is the plan to just keep going, get maximum amount of clients and just continue? Or is there stretchier goals about charging considerably more and working less during the week and that opening up other projects or life?

There’s also an element of where you sit in comparison to your peers, but what that means for you, as in… Do you want to exclude certain clients because you are too expensive? Or is it that you’re targeting other small businesses or charities and you want to have a lower rate to mean that you can do more like soul nourishing work?

There’s so many things that are at play and are actually quite unique to you and your situation and your business.

[00:13:02] – Steve
I know we’re not going to talk about hourly versus project. Well, it’s just a reminder, though, that you can be at risk of punishing yourself for being quick.

[00:13:17] – Frankie
Yes, big time!

[00:13:19] – Steve
So if I’m a really experienced podcast editor and I can do it a lot quicker than somebody else, if I’m only charging the same as them per hour, they’re going to end up earning more money than me. So there is an element of the experience that goes into it if you’re going to provide timesheets and do it that way.

Or maybe… And I don’t know how you’re doing your timesheets… But maybe instead of, I don’t know, being so exact to say, “This took me 15 minutes”. Maybe it’s only ever chargeable in half an hour blocks or something. You know, so that this one job, whether it takes you 15 minutes or 30 minutes, still counts as 30 minutes. And yay for you. And that’s because you’re good at your job.

There’s a couple of people in the Doing It For The Kids community who I think are well worth checking out for this. One is a resource that Dave Smythe created years ago, and it’s called the Freelance Pricing Guide.

[00:14:17] – Frankie
I can already hear Dave shuffling in his seat about the hourly pricing. His comments are coming.

[00:14:22] – Steve
His comment will be in the next episode, no doubt. But go to worknotes.co.uk for that.

[00:14:27] – Frankie
He also has a resource, an article in the community about this, basically. It’s like an almost miniature version of that, yeah.

*Note: Dave has now kindly offered his Freelance Pricing Guide to members of the DIFTK community for FREE. So if you’re a member, head to the Resource Library space to download it.*

[00:14:34] – Steve
It’s really good. When I created my course for new freelancers, whilst I do do a bit about how to set your pricing, I actually point people in the direction of Dave’s guide because he does it really well. The other person is an accountant, that’s Claire Owen Jones, who on LinkedIn has done loads of really great posts. So go to her profile, look at her posts, and you’ll see how she gets you thinking about what your rate is, how to think about how to increase your rate and stuff like that. She’s written brilliantly about it.

[00:15:06] – Frankie
Also, there’s another article in Doing It For The Kids that Matthew Knight has written. He’s just launched a new project for freelancers. He has many to his name. But the latest one is Freelancing.Support, and he’s kindly given us a resource from that community into Doing It For The Kids, and that is a list of where to find benchmarking reports on current freelance rates. Places where you can go to download literal rates that have been cross-checked across the industry that year. And yes, that’s not to say that you have to follow that, but it’s such a useful tool. Either way. Whether it’s like, “Holy shit, I’m so cheap!” or whether it’s, “Oh, that’s reassuringly where I’m at”. Like, it’s just a really nice thing to be able to look at. So definitely seek those out.

[00:15:51] – Steve
The great news is people aren’t saying no to your new price.

[00:15:57] – Frankie
Right, exactly.

[00:15:58] – Steve
Which might well mean that the next bunch of clients you bring on board can go to a higher price than that and then start to see if anybody goes, “Oh, I don’t know…”. Because if you’re not getting anybody saying no, then the chances are perhaps you could be charging more, some might argue. And actually those original people who’ve been on the same rate. You know, it’s okay to put your rates up once a year or whatever.

[00:16:21] – Frankie
We’ve got an episode on that, by the way.

[00:16:23] – Steve
Because the fact is, if you just end up increasing your hourly rate just a little bit, that has a huge knock-on effect to what you actually end up getting across the year and any struggles that you might have should you need to take time out. So you need to be thinking beyond just making the amount to cover what it is now and instead think for the future and also for the wiggle room that you might need. Just do yourself that favour because just a small amount, just a few quid or an extra £5 on that hourly rate will make a big difference.

[00:17:02] – Frankie
And you know, you’ve been doing it for 15 years. You have got a shit tonne of experience. Please don’t underestimate that when it comes to working out how much you’re charging people. Because we women in particular are quite good at totally underestimating ourselves and how much we’re worth. Yeah, 15 years is a long time. You know your shit.