[00:01:15] – Frankie
Hello, you’re listening to the Doing It For The Kids podcast, where we swear a bit too much and talk a bit too fast about freelance life with kids in the mix. I’m Frankie, and this is Steve.

[00:01:25] – Steve
Hello! Yes, each episode, we take a question from the Doing It For The Kids community, do our best to answer it, but, of course, we start each episode by looking back at the last one. Last time, we were talking about…

[00:01:34] – Frankie
Whether or not you should put your prices on your website.

[00:01:37] – Steve
Sonia Davis got in touch, said,

“Absolutely, I share my prices. There’s nothing more awkward than a potential client reaching out and suddenly having to face the embarrassment that they can’t afford me after all. Plus, if I can’t find a price easily when I’m buying something, I just can’t be bothered. I’ll find someone else, thanks. It’s a huge barrier for me if people don’t tell me their prices at the start.”

[00:01:59] – Frankie
Samantha Wheeler says,

“We’ve dug deep into pricing so much over the years. My partner in crime, Owen Richards, once did some crazy math calculations to try and nail a model. No pricing is set in stone for us anymore. We are very much led by love and passion, which makes it tough not to adapt our pricing to make it so that we can do those gigs we really feel connected to. It’s a beast of a topic. Really comforting to hear others experiencing the same conundrums.”

[00:02:22] – Steve
Dave Smyth says,

“So many thoughts. But definitely agree it’s not a one size fits all. I’ve always tried to give an indication of rates, usually starting from, but I switched to charging day rates about 18 months ago. I’ve just changed up my site and wanted to give a bit more context about how those rates pan out. Now my site states the day rate and that discounted rates are available for projects for social good and a table of recent projects that say how long they took. This lets clients get an idea of how flexible it can be, set some expectations, but also doesn’t fix me to my current rate forever. If I stated the exact project costs, that would be out of date as soon as my rate changes. I do all of this because transparency is a core value for me, but I also think it can be reassuring for clients. If your rate is stated on the site, they can’t ever think that the rate has been pulled out of thin air just for them.”

[00:03:16] – Frankie
And Susannah Dale says,

“Pet chat, not price chat. But for my son’s 6th birthday, we bought him a tank and four fake geckos. These are his pets and he loves them.”

Absolute genius. Honestly, why didn’t I think of that?

[00:03:33] – Steve
It has to be said that most of the comments we got for that episode were about fish.

[00:06:17] – Frankie
Our question today comes from Esme Ford, wedding florist at the Honeyseeker. Her website is thehoneyseeker.co.uk

Esme says,

“Hi, Frankie and Steve.

I’m giving a ten minute talk next week and I need your help! Public speaking is something I never do, so I had a little practice and filmed myself doing my talk. And my voice is so wishy-washy. I hate it when I um a lot, so I try to actively pause instead, but then the flow of the talk is all wrong. I just feel like my voice has no authority. How do you both make your voice sound so clear and confident? Have you always been good at speaking or have you just improved with time help?

Thanks, Esme.”

[00:06:56] – Steve
Well, yay for doing the talk, Esme! Um. I just said um. There you go, Esme. For a start, we both say um!

[00:07:07] – Frankie
All the time.

[00:07:08] – Steve
And ah.

[00:07:09] – Frankie
And edit it out.

[00:07:10] – Steve
So one way is to make everybody watch a video of yourself where you’ve edited out all the ums and ahs rather than doing it live?

[00:07:18] – Frankie
Based on this question, I think our personal challenge for this episode should be to try not to say um. So usually we just do it and we edit it out.

[00:07:30] – Steve
There’s one.

[00:07:31] – Frankie
Yeah, I would suggest-, oh, did I? Damn it!! I feel like Steve is the person to answer this question. You’ve had a background in radio. You do voiceover work. Like, you literally speak for a job.

[00:07:43] – Steve
I thought you were about to say you literally love the sound of your own voice.

[00:07:47] – Frankie
I mean, that may be true.

[00:07:49] – Steve
Speaking of being on the radio. I got my first full-time job on the radio and I went round to see my mum at the weekend after my first week, so I said to her, “Hey, Mum, what do you think?” And she said, “Well, you say um a lot.” That’s all she said.

[00:08:08] – Frankie
Oh, that’s brutal. Thanks, Mum.

[00:08:13] – Steve
You say, “Oh, my voice is so wishy-washy.” I bet it’s not, Esme. I meet very few people who like the sound of their voice and then they keep doing things like podcasting, for example, and they just get used to it. You have to remember that everybody you deal with in your business and in your life listens to your voice and I guarantee they’re not looking at you wincing. Genuinely, I bet your voice is lovely. It’s not what you think it is, it’s just because you’re not used to hearing it and so please don’t think that.

[00:08:50] – Frankie
Also, can I just pipe up for the introverts? Yes, people need to be able to hear you and understand what you’re saying, but it’s okay to be quiet. You don’t need to be this big brash speaker. You can still communicate what you want to say in a softer way. And that’s just as powerful.

[00:09:13] – Steve
In our defence, making this podcast — one of the reasons we do say ‘um’ quite a lot (other than the fact that we’re amateurish idiots) is that we are kind of thinking off the top of our head. If we were standing up and giving a talk where we’d thought about it more, and we had our points clearly laid out and we’d maybe practised it or something like that, then you’re less likely to say um because you know where you’re going with it. Whereas sometimes we’re using it as a thinking break.

[00:09:46] – Frankie
Yeah.

[00:09:46] – Steve
Part of the reason we say it is because we want to let the other person know that we’re thinking.

[00:09:53] – Frankie
We’re still processing our thoughts. Yes.

[00:09:55] – Steve
Because otherwise the other person will jump in. But we’re like going, um. It’s a bit like when you’re on the phone to somebody at a call centre and they go, “Yeah, I’m just-,” and they make that noise to let you know that they’re typing and looking something up. “I’m just going to look that up for you, Mr. Folland.” So yeah, maybe you need some hold music while you think about your next point?

[00:10:18] – Frankie
I do that, don’t I?

[00:10:20] – Steve
Sometimes you actually do.

[00:10:20] – Frankie
I legit do that.

[00:10:26] – Steve
I love what you’ve said already, Esme, about, “I hate it when I say um a lot. So try to actively pause instead.” You see, you’re already trying to think.

[00:10:34] – Frankie
The first step is recognising you have a problem, right? Acknowledging it, being aware of it.

[00:10:41] – Steve
Try and own that pause, though. Look confident and even look at your audience. So like, look around. So it’s like you’re not just going “um”, you’re kind of just looking around the room and then you carry on with what your next bit is.

Another thing you might do is — if you’ve got slides — then instead of saying “um”, you just pause and look at your slides and then you carry on while you’re doing that. Personally, I find having bullets or quotes or whatever it is on the slide, not too much information, but enough that it keeps me on track as to where the hell I’m meant to be going.
I also think there is that element of standing up straight and just feeling confident. You start off confident. Start off with something you know really well. Really practice that opening of your talk so that you can just stand up and your mind isn’t going to go blank. You can just start up and go for it. I try and start with a story. I don’t even say, “Hi, I’m Steve. I do this,” I just get up and I start telling a story. So it sort of draws people in.

Yeah. I think practising filming yourself, the fact that you’ve already been doing that is great. These are tactics, because I think if you practice it, if you prepare it, if you do it lots, then you’re less likely to say, um. It’s really quite hard to stop saying um and ah. I do it and I edit podcasts for a living. I edit so many out and-,

[00:12:13] – Frankie
You should have an um jar sometimes!

[00:12:14] – Steve
There’s nothing wrong with leaving them in, by the way, because sometimes it is a point where somebody is clearly thinking about something. And sometimes you can take out too many gaps, you can take out too many ums because it is a signifier that they are trying to find something. Guess what I’m trying to say is don’t feel bad. Everybody does it. Almost everybody does it. And don’t beat yourself up if you catch yourself doing it either. If you find yourself going ‘um’, just crack on.

[00:12:44] – Frankie
The key is knowing what you’re going to say really well. I think the first stage of any of that is only agreeing to speak about things that you know really well. Because if you’re put in a position where you are speaking about something that’s like on the periphery of what you do, or slightly out of your knowledge, but close enough, it just immediately makes your life more difficult and you’re going to feel inherently uncomfortable and then you’re going to have less confidence. So particularly at the beginning, if you’re only starting out with your first couple of talks, I would only agree to speak about something that you know inside out, and that you’re super passionate about because it’s going to flow. It’s going to be natural for you to talk about that thing.

And I think there’s a lot of comparison between doing a talk in person live and being on somebody else’s podcast. Not always, but sometimes podcast recordings are not edited at all. They just go out as they are and they should tell you that, or they should tell you how much is going to be edited, but I would try and treat it as though it’s not going to be edited.

So everything you say, you want to say with confidence, et cetera. The first few podcasts that I went on, I asked the person who was going to be talking to me what they were going to ask me about because I knew loosely why I was on and what the subject matter was — but I wanted to be able to prepare as much as possible what my answers are. In the same way that if I was going to do a talk live on my own, I would want to prepare as much as possible what I’m going to say. I think there’s a lot of comparison between those two scenarios. So get as much information about what it is you’re going to say and prepare as much as you can.

[00:14:24] – Steve
I should say there is actually a vlog where I went and did my first talk, and you can see I absolutely bricked it.

[00:14:33] – Frankie
I remember that.

[00:14:34] – Steve
So don’t go thinking that other people don’t get nervous or anything like that. Like, you’re asking us because you think that we’re clear and confident, and I tend to be confident if I… or not get nervous if I know exactly what’s going to happen and how it’s going to play out.

[00:14:51] – Frankie
Yes. A thousand percent.

My issue with the um thing — and maybe she can relate — but when I do things like um or I pause, it’s almost like if I keep talking, then my internal monologue (that, frankly is telling me I’m shit and nobody cares what I’m talking about) is allowed to take over? When I stop talking, it’s allowed to take over. And so I almost find those silences and those breaks deeply uncomfortable. Not because the audience necessarily finding them uncomfortable, but because that’s all I can hear at those moments. “It’s shit, it’s shit, it’s shit, it’s shit, what you’re saying is shit”.

Whereas if I keep talking and I’m distracted by the subject, I’m less aware of that consciously. And yes, that gets easier the more I do it. Because she asks us — have you always been good at speaking? Have I always been good at speaking? No. Am I good at speaking now? Debatable. But I’m definitely more confident than I was once upon a time.

Another thing that can help is having some sort of ‘hype’ ritual beforehand. So sometimes I’ve done literal star jumps, or it might be something like, going somewhere quiet and having a cup of tea on your own beforehand. Whatever it is that you need to get in the zone. Trial and error. And then use that for the next one, something that you can do to calm yourself down. Get in the right headspace, et cetera, et cetera.

I also think icebreakers are really important. So, Steve, earlier you mentioned about how you like to open with a story to sort of get people in. My thing is humour. I like to crack a joke. It makes me feel more comfortable. I feel like it breaks down that barrier between speaker and audience because that’s part of what I find inherently uncomfortable, is like, the hierarchy of it? And that I’ve been put in this position, (impostor syndrome, hello!) But why am I up here and I’m talking to these people? Whereas if I break that barrier, I feel so much more like I’m just talking peer-to-peer, do you know what I mean? I’m just talking to other people rather than I’m a speaker and these are the people listening to me.

So again, like something that helps you break the ice, that breaks that barrier between you and your audience, whatever that looks like for you. I’ve done more public speaking in the last ten years than I would like to. And it’s not my happy place, it’s not my zone of genius, but I am definitely less anxious about it than I was once upon a time. It does get easier. I’m not saying it will be easy for you at any point. It may not be. It may, but it may not be. But it does get easier.

[00:17:39] – Steve
I am excited for you, Esme. I love the fact that you’ve already agreed to do the talk and I’m sure it’s going to be great.

[00:17:45] – Frankie
Honestly, agreeing to do anything like this when you’re anxious about it is the first hurdle.

[00:17:50] – Steve
Remember that everybody watching is willing you to do well. Really practice your opening so that you get up there, if you start confidently with that bit you’ve practiced so many times, then that’s going to really make you feel better. And practice the ending as well. So you kind of like, nail that ending. Mic drop. Everybody lifts you onto their shoulders and carries you from the room.

[00:18:18] – Frankie
Steve is now picking something out of his teeth.

[00:18:20] – Steve
Yeah, that wasn’t a dramatic pause.

Right. Get in touch, tell us what you think. Maybe you’ve found a way to ditch the ums and the ahs. We need your questions, can be anonymous. And Esme, tell us how your talk goes. I’m invested now. I want to know how it goes. Sure it’ll go great.