[00:00:34] – Frankie
Hello, you’re listening to the Doing It For The Kids podcast, where we swear a bit too much and talk a bit too fast about freelance life with kids in the mix. I’m Frankie and this is Steve.

[00:00:47] – Steve
Hello. Yes. Each episode we take a question from the Doing It For The Kids community. Do our best to answer it, but we start each episode by looking back at the last one. Last time we were talking about-,

[00:00:56] – Frankie
Starting a side project. It’s gone down very well. I feel like a lot of people are thinking about this in January!

[00:01:02] – Steve
Nina, who actually asked the question, said,

“As Friday is now my official side project day — it always was my side project day, but after hearing the podcast episode I’ve decided to make it official — I’m celebrating by writing a blog post about side projects! which will be published on my blog, which is my side project.”

[00:01:20] – Frankie
Yes! Come on.

[00:01:21] – Steve
Very good, Nina. Yes.

[00:01:22] – Frankie
Laura Mingozzi-Marsh says,

“Firstly, it’s all about plotting your period on your calendar. No meetings or presentations on low progesterone days. Hmm. I don’t actually have a second point.”

I got so many messages about the calendar.

[00:01:37] – Steve
Jason Hunt says,

“Lips and cheeks!!!”

[00:01:41] – Frankie
Lips and cheeks.

[00:01:42] – Steve
If you didn’t hear that episode, you’re certainly going to go back and listen to it now, aren’t you?

[00:01:46] – Frankie
Oh, I was *literally* talking about lips and cheeks.

[00:01:48.840] – Steve
Why? What were you talking about? I forgot that.

[00:01:50] – Frankie
Trumpets.

[00:01:51] – Steve
Oh, yeah.

[00:05:25] – Frankie
Our question this week comes from Detective Roxanne Maxwell.

Roxanne says,

“I had a situation recently where I responded to somebody who I know really well, offering to help me with something. I said, yes, appreciated the service they did for me and paid them for that service. Afterwards, they asked if I’d be happy to give a testimonial, and I said, “Sure. How about you draft something and I’ll tweak it?” They sent me something. I tweaked their wording so it was more like me, and shortened it so it wasn’t so gushy. Because… You know how some services just go the extra mile and they’re brilliant and you will wax lyrical about them because you love them so much? Well, this wasn’t one of those situations. But nor was it a shit service, it was just bang for your buck type stuff.

Since then, my endorsement has been used as a propeller for this particular service in online spaces. And it’s just made me feel really uncomfortable. It’s made me really think about how we ask people for testimonials, but also how we use those testimonials and how that lands with the person that we’ve asked.

Now, I know it’s really important to get testimonials, and I know it’s really important to bang our own drums and promote ourselves, but is there a way to do that without making the people we’ve asked feel icky? I mean, should I have said, “Happy for you to use this, but could you not plaster it everywhere, every day for 50 weeks of the year?” Which is how it feels at the moment. Because, if I’m honest, this experience is going to make me reluctant to give testimonials in the future. And I would hate for any of my clients to feel like that.

Thanks, Roxanne Maxwell.”

Testimonials. How do we ask for them? What do we do with them? How do we not piss off people that give them to us?

[00:07:12] – Steve
It’s interesting. I had never thought about this before.

[00:07:17] – Frankie
Yeah, I’m like, “Have I pissed off some of my clients by using their testimonial too much?”

[00:07:20] – Steve
But then I bet, knowing the fact that you never promote yourself, that you have never-,

[00:07:25] – Frankie
Done it 50 weeks of the year or whatever? Yeah, true.

[00:07:26] – Steve
I sit here and think about how I use testimonials and I think, “No, I don’t use the same thing again and again and again”. I think one thing I would say, Roxanne, is — I bet nobody else is noticing it as much as you are.

[00:07:44] – Frankie
So true.

[00:07:45] – Steve
For you, it’s kind of like jumping out at you. It’s jarring. Maybe they’re even tagging you? Other people just aren’t going to see it or notice it as much as you.

[00:07:55] – Frankie
Very good point.

[00:07:56] – Steve
If that makes you feel better at all. It should, though. I think it should.

[00:08:01] – Frankie
The crux of this situation is down to the fact that the service was fine but not amazing. Roxanne says it herself. I feel like if she’d had this amazing experience, it wouldn’t feel as jarring. And it’s not that it was a bad experience, but it feels like the balance is off between how much it’s being used and how great the experience was? And I feel like there’s a bit of embarrassment about that? Or maybe even fear that somebody’s going to sign up thinking it was amazing based on Roxanne’s endorsement of it, and then maybe they’re going to be a bit disappointed? Or it’s not going to be as good as her testimonial suggests?

I don’t know what the social situation is. She says, “I know this person really well, and they approached me about doing some work for me”… Basically, reading between the lines, I feel like they may know a lot of the same people?

[00:08:52] – Steve
Yeah.

[00:08:53] – Frankie
And maybe there’s like a fear about reputational risk or… I don’t know, do you know what I mean? Like she’s afraid of endorsing it and then it’s not that great and it’s quite a tight group of people.

[00:09:05] – Steve
But then don’t you think there’s also a fear of saying, “Can you please stop using my testimonial quite so much?” And then that person going, “Oh. Roxanne said, stop using my testimonial…” I mean, would it be wrong to say to them, “Look, could you maybe just ease up on how much you’re use it? Maybe ask other people for testimonials and start using them? Because otherwise it will look like I’m your only ever customer.” You could phrase it in a way that doesn’t like… “I love that you love this testimonial, but maybe you need to get some others because it’s the only one I ever see?” Maybe you could phrase it in a way that isn’t, “Please just shut up!”

[00:09:46] – Frankie
I think what she says at the end is very key. “It’s made me feel reluctant to give testimonials in the future. And I also worry about asking my clients for testimonials in case I put them in a similar position.” I think that’s a really good point. Personally, I’ve never thought about any of that when I’ve asked for testimonials and what I’ve done with those testimonials. So I think it’s just an interesting learning curve, Roxanne, whether or not we have answers to this. It’s making me think about how I could do that better, or communicate how it will be used better.

[00:10:19] – Steve
Yeah, that’s a good point. I always ask, “Are you okay for me to-,” and sometimes it’s not directly a testimonial, but say somebody sends me a lovely DM message about the Being Freelance community, and then I’m like, “Would you mind if I shared that? Because it’s great,” sort of thing. But then maybe it’s worth us sometimes checking in further down the line and saying, “Hey, are you still okay for me to use this? I want to make sure that I’m not annoying you by sharing this in the way I am!”

[00:10:46] – Frankie
And also just being more explicit about where that’s going to be used?

[00:10:49] – Steve
Yeah.

[00:10:50] – Frankie
Because I do similar. I’ve got two documents, basically, one for my graphic stuff and one for the Doing It For The Kids community where I have quotes and I do ask, I always ask for those quotes or if I can share them. But am I crystal clear about where that might actually end up? I feel like the only instance where I then go back and check is if I’m going to put it somewhere permanent, like on the website. Not ‘permanent’, but somewhere it will be for a longer time rather than just sharing it once on social media kind of thing. So I always check if somebody wants to be like an ‘official’ testimonial on my website. But outside of that, maybe I’m not telling people enough because it could… From what I do, it could end up on my Instagram thing, it could end up in a newsletter, it could end up on my LinkedIn. Not as a testimonial on my LinkedIn, but in a post kind of thing. It could end up in a lot of places, and I do use them more than once, and I’m not even that, like, hot on selling my stuff! But I have used some quotes more than once? Yes I have.

Is it just about being more explicit about what could happen, and/or checking in more because people’s opinions of stuff change? Particularly with something like we’re doing where they’re in your community over a long period of time. Not to say that people start hating it, but they could be changing their minds about that thing. Whereas if you do a one-off client job, the testimonial stands for that one.

[00:12:22] – Steve
Look, do you know what? We were already bad at sharing our testimonials. Now we’re going to be even worse. We’re going to be second guessing ourselves.

[00:12:29] – Frankie
But maybe now… Maybe we just need more of a system, I suppose. Almost like a template, an email template that’s like, “I would love to use this thing and here’s how it might be used. And if at any point you no longer want me to use it,” you know, an opt out almost?

[00:12:44] – Steve
Yes. Like an unsubscribe button.

[00:12:46] – Frankie
Not necessarily that formal, but just putting that in writing.

[00:12:49] – Steve
The ability to say, “Look, if ever you’re not comfortable with this anymore, please just drop me a message, because I’d hate for you to be annoyed with me.”

[00:12:58] – Frankie
Yeah, I feel like the risk here is you’ve paid for that service and it was great and so much so that you gave a testimonial, but then you might actually start to feel negatively about that person over time if it becomes grating. And that’s exactly what they don’t want.

[00:13:16] – Steve
Roxanne, I don’t think you should be reluctant to give testimonials in the future, nor do I think that you should be reluctant to ask for testimonials because you’re not going to use it. You’ve now experienced this, you’re not going to use it in the same way. I don’t think most of us would use it in the same way, but at least it’s maybe throwing this question into our heads to reflect upon. Or if you give a testimonial in the future, maybe you could say, “Please don’t use this in a million social posts.”

[00:13:54] – Frankie
But how do you-,

[00:13:59] – Steve
How do you make sure that they’re going to put it on a bus?

[00:14:01] – Frankie
Yeah. I mean, they could. That’s exactly what I mean. It’s like, where is it going to be used? Is it going to go on the side of a bus as part of a large government campaign? Is it going to be in a printed material, like a flyer, or an annual report? I don’t know. Again, it’s that permanence, I think, is the deciding factor about whether you need extra permission. I feel like, in my gut, that permanence of, like, it being printed and living on in the world, or being put on a static website. That feels like a different level of consent that needs to be requested.

Would you feel more comfortable if that testimonial didn’t have your face all over it? If it was, like, more anonymous? Just seeing their own face all the time may be uncomfortable. But then an actually anonymous testimonial is sort of useless, isn’t it? Because you could have just made it up! But it could be visually anonymous in that it’s just text-based. Then you might feel less affronted with your own image? I don’t know what the marketing looks like. I’ve just got visions of Roxanne’s face now on the side of a bus!

[00:15:19] – Steve
Every time it gets stuck in traffic.

[00:15:21] – Frankie
Yeah.

[00:15:22] – Steve
You don’t have to stop at the red light.

Okay, look, this is an interesting one. Maybe you’ve had experience with this as well. Maybe you’ve got a system for asking for testimonials and how you use them. Maybe you’ve also been upset with the way somebody’s used your testimonial. Get in touch wherever Frankie’s posted about this episode.