[00:01:17] – Steve
Hello. Yes! Each episode, we take a question from the Doing It For The Kids community. We do our best to answer it, but we start each episode by looking back at the last one. Last time we were talking about-,

[00:01:27] – Frankie
When you give a testimonial and then it ends up all over the Internet and you feel awkward about it.

[00:01:34] – Steve
Paul Robinson got in touch. He said,

“So many thoughts and feelings I needed to allow to settle in my mind on this. But ultimately, I think Roxanne needs to set more boundaries.

One, it’s okay to say no to a request for a testimonial! Yes, even to a friend.

Two, but if you feel unable to say no, then always, always use your own words rather than let them draft it, which I think perhaps is a root cause of the discomfort here. Drafting the testimonial from scratch, in your own words, allows you to remain in control of those aspects of the service that you felt were genuinely deserving, e.g. value for money, rather than allowing it to turn into an undeserving gush fest that’s unrepresentative of the service you received.

And three, top tip! Design the testimonial so that it dates quickly. For example, ‘I used Top Tier Cakes for my daughter’s birthday in August 2023 and it was fantastic value for money’.”

[00:02:25] – Frankie
Paul’s a pro.

[00:02:26] – Steve
By the way, we’ve not checked if Top Tier Cakes exists. Although if Top Tier Cakes do exist and they want us to send us a cake — we will give them a testimonial.

[00:02:35] – Frankie
Andi Best says,

“Something I did once and then fell out of the habit of doing but really want to do again, was pointing first-time clients to a ‘wrap up’ page on my website once the job was complete. It was a page with general thanks-very-much sentiments, links to my newsletter and socials, but also a feedback and testimonial submission. Non-mandatory, of course, but easier than a direct ask. The testimonial offering was just one component of the wrapping up process. If/when I do resurrect this page, I’ll add a tick box or two asking for preferences on how the testimonial is used, as well as a disclaimer about intended use, etc.”

[00:03:08] – Steve
I’m loving that.

And Lou Jennings says,

“I am so glad I’m not the only person who felt that way about Mr. Tickle. Now he gives me the ick.”

[00:03:19] – Frankie
Right!!

[00:07:23] – Steve
Okay, this time around, we’ve got another anonymous one. So, whenever we have an anonymous email to answer, we go to the fantasy name generator and find detective names…

Ziva Lawyer, Natalie Mason. Nadia Lawson, Barbara Harris.

[00:07:40] – Frankie
Let’s do Babs. Babs Harris.

[00:07:43] – Steve
Babs Harris. All right.

In that case, this week’s email comes from Detective Babs Harris.

Babs says,

“I work with corporate clients around workshop facilitation and keynote speaking. My question is around pricing transparency.

I’m finding that I’m getting lots of inquiries, which I’m very grateful for. Most of the time I respond via email with my fees and the potential client doesn’t have the budget. I would say this happens three quarters of the time. My fees are probably higher than average, but I’m happy with the price point and the value I offer and I’ve got lots of repeat clients that I work with closely. It’s not a major admin task to respond to each inquiry individually, but collectively, over a month or so, it can take up quite a bit of time.

So I’m looking at reviewing how I do things. I’m keen to understand what others do and why. Do they: 1) display prices on their website. 2) Send fees in response to an inquiry prior to setting up a meeting with the potential client. Or 3) meet with the potential client first and then send prices after.

Which approach do you think is best for maximising revenue, building relationships, but also-,”

God. Sorry, I shouldn’t have rushed that coffee.

[00:09:03] – Frankie
What is happening?

[00:09:05] – Steve
Is that music coming from your end??

[00:09:07] – Frankie
Yeah. Where is that coming from?! Is that Bluey playing from that tablet? Oh, my God, there’s a Bluey ghost in my house. Sorry to interrupt. Please continue…

[00:09:20] – Steve
Babs continues,

“Which approach do you think is best for maximising revenue, building relationships, but also protecting time? Thanks, Babs.”

[00:09:28] – Frankie
I’m going to go out on a limb and say there’s no one answer to this. Would you agree?

[00:09:34] – Steve
Yes. I mean, thank God, for most things in life.

[00:09:38] – Frankie
But, you know, it might be easy to feel that some people have got this nailed and you should replicate that. But I don’t think that replicating necessarily works because it depends massively on what it is that you do and who your clients are.

[00:09:53] – Steve
Babs has given us lots to go on here, though.

[00:09:56] – Frankie
Yes, true.

[00:09:57] – Steve
So, Babs, let’s look at what you’re doing. Okay, so Babs is getting lots of enquiries.

[00:10:04] – Frankie
Which is great.

[00:10:04] – Steve
And then she replies to the enquiry with the fees. And then she’s getting emails back going, “Oh, no, I can’t afford that.” But that’s only three quarters of a time, another quarter of a time, they go, “Brilliant, let’s book it in.”

[00:10:17] – Frankie
The question is — from a productivity and protecting time perspective (which is one of her questions) — would you cut out a lot of ‘wasted time’, in inverted commas, by just having your prices on your website?

[00:10:28] – Steve
Do you know, it’s funny. I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit recently, because I’ve had a few situations where I’ve ended up like… A potential client has come my way. Maybe they’ve been recommended, and then I’ve had a conversation with them. We’ve been on a call and then maybe — and I wouldn’t say a ‘proposal’ — but I’ve put together an email of how I can help them and some prices. And then maybe again, actually, three out of those four people have come back and gone, “Nah, can’t afford that”. In fact, one of them was way out. Like, so way out that I was almost cross with myself that we had even bothered to have the conversation. But then I thought about it. I thought…

Okay, so I could have asked them if they have a budget in mind at the beginning and then never had that call? Or I could have got on the call, met them, had a little chat and then said, “Do you have a budget in mind?” So then I wouldn’t have wasted time pulling together a proposal, lead type email. Because my problem with it is — yes, it makes sense in some ways to put your prices on your website and then never hear from the people who go, “I can’t afford that”. But part of me can’t help but think, “Yeah, but I met those people. I had a conversation with those people”, and I know we can say, “but they’re all low paying, you don’t want those sort of people!”. Yeah, but those people might end up with more budget, or those people might end up working in a company who has more budget. Those people might recommend me to somebody who has more budget.

[00:11:56] – Frankie
Or they might end up finding that budget! I’ve had some clients who’ve gone, “I can’t afford that right now, but I’m going to go and apply for a grant to get that”.

[00:12:04] – Steve
Amazing. Another one came back and said, “Oh, do you know what? I can’t afford that. I’ve got this budget.” And I was like, “Well, I tell you what, why don’t we create a package that delivers, so we change the deliverables to suit your budget?” And then eventually they came back and said, “You know what? We’re going to go with you. You’re more expensive than everybody else we spoke to, but we really like you and want to work with you.” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

We went on and made their podcast and I think about that person and I think if I had simply asked about their budget at the beginning and they’d have given it and I’d have gone, “Nah,” then it wouldn’t have happened. I wouldn’t have had that client, they wouldn’t have had a good experience, they wouldn’t have recommended me to other people. So, I don’t know…

[00:12:43] – Frankie
But there’s a line, isn’t there? There is a line. And how do you draw that line, is the question. I think, yes, there is an argument for investing that time from like a long-game perspective. So those people might come back, et cetera, all the reasons you’ve just said. But there is also… You need to cut out the risk of wasting your time on people who are just not ever going to turn into anything, whether that’s a recommendation or work.

So, I don’t have my prices on my website. And part of my thing about that is sometimes I change my pricing depending on who that person is. So I don’t want to be fixed. I know some people swear by, “These are my rates, these are my packages and that’s it”. But I’m not that person. So if somebody comes to me from, for example, a charity — I work a lot with arts organisations who don’t have massive budgets. I almost have like, two tiers of pricing, depending on who the potential client is and how much I want to work with them on the thing.

[00:13:37] – Steve
So, Babs, you know what your fees are for these things, but if your fees are variable, then maybe putting them on your site isn’t a great idea. Some people would say you should put on your website, “prices from blah blah blah blah”, and then obviously the people under that won’t get in touch. The danger with the ‘from’ thing is… Do they call it ‘price anchoring’? It’s like where if it says prices from 250 and then I get in touch and you say, “Yeah, Steve, that’ll cost 500”. And I’m like, “Oh, that’s expensive. I was expecting…”

[00:14:10] – Frankie
In my head it was 250!

[00:14:12] – Steve
Yeah.

So then you could have a range. You could say from 250 to 1000, but still part of me is going, “Yeah, 250, I reckon.”

[00:14:22] – Frankie
But I think your website, generally — people can get a sense of whether they can afford you from your website. A lot of freelancers who charge a lot of money invest a lot in their websites and therefore that is reflected in the branding and that comes across, even without necessarily outlining what the prices are, is my point. Also, if you don’t have your prices on the website, it can work both ways. As in, people might contact you who think they can afford you when they can’t. But equally, could you be repelling people who think they can’t afford you? I guess a bit, like, you know… When you go in a shop and there’s no prices on the clothes, you just assume that you can’t afford it.

[00:15:03] – Steve
So Babs says, “Which approach do you think is best for maximising revenue, building relationship, but also protecting time?” I don’t know whether there’s like a Venn diagram where these three things sort of collide in this instance. I mean, how do you quantify ‘maximising revenue’, for example? Because what about the knock-on effect of people coming back further down the line if you did meet them? Are we taking off the time ‘wasted’, in quotation marks, replying to people? I don’t know. Then ‘building relationships’. Building relationships is key to all of our businesses. So actually getting on a call with people has a cost, but who knows what it might deliver further down the line. And then ‘protecting time’ — which is obviously really important, when you’re a parent and running a business — it’s less about sending the email, isn’t it? And it’s more about when you get on the call. That’s where the actual time is taken.

[00:15:58] – Frankie
Yeah. It sounds to me like the biggest issue for Babs is the time, because she says she’s getting the 25% to pay and doesn’t seem to be suggesting that she’s not making enough. If being more savvy about your time and not having to respond to all these people who aren’t going to come to anything is the biggest issue, then, yeah, automating or building in an extra layer… What do we call it? ‘Barriers to entry!’ Like, it’s not that you’re saying no immediately, but if you create multiple barriers to entry, it means that by the time somebody gets to the point where they’re booking a call with you, the likelihood is that they are a decent fit, not only because they have bothered to go through those barriers, but it means that they are compatible with when you’re available and how much you cost.

And, yeah, is there an argument for — click on my website, be taken to some sort of form, or be sent a form via email that may or may not have pricing on it, but might ask them what their budget is and then you can make a decision from there whether you send them an email back saying, “No thanks”, or “I’d like to find out more, please”. It feels like you need an extra layer in there somewhere? But what that layer looks like, I don’t know.

[00:17:08] – Steve
I think in the main, of all the freelancers I’ve spoken to, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anybody regret putting their prices on their website. I don’t do it. You don’t do it. But it’s like — I don’t have an automatic answer. I like to find out more about the project first. But if you’re in a position where actually you do have an automatic answer that isn’t really going to change, then maybe you’re doing yourself and them a favour by putting them on your site? Like, with a workshop facilitation, it’s probably got a very fixed price and then there’s add ons if you want extra resources afterwards or you want me to bring the pastries.

[00:17:47] – Frankie
Yeah, no, one size fits all right? Like if you’re a wedding photographer, you’re going to have package prices on your site straight up. You just are. And maybe in this instance, Babs, that is your situation and you do have specific prices for things and it would just make your life a hell of a lot easier if you just put them on the site.

[00:18:04] – Steve
And I still think about that client who I really enjoyed working with on a project recently where we adapted the scope to their budget.

[00:18:11] – Frankie
Right. And honestly, some of the best projects I’ve done have been ones where my gut says yes, even though they don’t necessarily have all the money I would like them to have.

[00:18:22] – Steve
Okay, we would love to hear your thoughts on this. Do you put your prices on your website? Have you had a good or bad experience with that? Wherever Frankie’s posted about this, you can comment. We could be reading it out next time. Or of course, drop her an email and we need your questions. So if you’ve got a question, we would love to have it from you. If you need it to be anonymous, it can be.