[00:00:53] – Frankie
Hello. You’re listening to the Doing It For The Kids podcast, where we swear a bit too much and talk a bit too fast about freelance life with kids in the mix. I’m Frankie and this is Steve.

[00:01:01] – Steve
Hello. Yes, each episode we take a question from the Doing It For The Kids community, but we start each episode by looking back at the last one. Last time, we were talking about-,

[00:01:11] – Frankie
Sticking to your values. So, turning down work that doesn’t align with your values and how to do that.

[00:01:17] – Steve
Louisa Ellins got in touch and said,

“I’ve been approached twice by potential clients in areas that I’m not comfortable with. Both times I’ve turned the work down and said, ‘I don’t think I’ll be able to give it my all and give them the best result’. One person was very understanding in their response, and the other never replied. Honesty is one of my values. So, although neither email was nice to write, I felt comforted in the knowledge that I’d done the right thing.”

[00:01:42] – Frankie
Anya Pearlman says,

“While I agree that people should only share online what they’re comfortable with, sharing values is absolutely crucial. I don’t want people enquiring that can’t relate to what’s important to me. It’s a waste of both our time. Sharing values and opinions is the opposite of unprofessional in my eyes.”

[00:01:58] – Steve
Dave Smyth says,

“I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being upfront about your values. A lot of the work I get these days is because I’ve been vocal about the particular combination of things I care about. There’s a permanently work-in-progress page on my site dedicated to that, which acts as a filter for some clients and as a USP to others, but you have to be comfortable with being open about that.

It’s probably good just to have the conversation. I’d also, maybe, ask if they could give you a brief overview of the project/client when they’re asking about availability. If they can do that, then that might give you wriggle room to get out of things in a subtle way, i.e. ‘I’m not available’, rather than having to explain your position each time.”

[00:02:58] – Frankie
And Laura Mengozzi-Marsh says,

“During my interview at the last agency job I had, they asked me whether there are any industries that I wouldn’t work for. There was transparency from the start. I found their honesty, and the space they created for me to be honest, meant there was no ambiguity. In conclusion, you’ll probably find that having a conversation with your manager is far less excruciating than you’re expecting. Just talk to people. That’s the answer to most problems in the world.”

[00:03:22] – Steve
Very wise words at the end there. Thank you so much for all your comments.

[00:07:01] – Steve
Okay, this week’s question is anonymous but they have gone through the trouble to give us a name so that we don’t have to think of one. So, it comes from… Colin Parks!

[00:07:11] – Steve
“Hi, Frankie and Steve.

I’ve worked for a company, employed, for over twelve years. It’s grown from 50 people to a 5,000 plus strong agency. I work with digital technology as an account director and I’ve managed some decent clients. My key skills are listening to, understanding, and challenging client requirements, and then, translating them into actionable, achievable outcomes. I have the soft skills of technology, but I don’t code.

I’m now fed up with the increasing internal hierarchy, unnecessary process bollocks, and the required emphasis on being seen to do things like PowerPoint decks, rather than actually achieving valuable outcomes for clients.

Anyway, I’m currently on three months of gardening leave, so I have some time to plan my goals, brush up on skills, and of course, do some gardening.

Ultimately, I want to go freelance, but I don’t want to be known as a C word – ‘consultant’ – as I intend to actually roll my sleeves up and do work such as designing proof of concepts, helping their development teams and deciding on the right technology.

What advice can you give someone wanting to go freelance when it’s about services and outcomes, rather than outputs. That is, I don’t create, say, graphics or videos. Instead, I help clients define their problems and investigate solutions. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Colin.”

Do you know Colin… I don’t think you want to hear my answer!

[00:08:42] – Frankie
Uh oh.

[00:08:43] – Steve
I would use the word ‘consultant’. What have you got against consultant? I think being a consultant speaks to your experience. It speaks to the things that you’re offering.

[00:08:54] – Frankie
I think consultant has got a bad rep. I don’t know. I think there’s like, a bit of an eye roll about people who leave jobs and call themselves ‘consultants’. And maybe, some people, think that they don’t actually do an awful lot?

[00:09:09] – Steve
But Colin, is that true within your industry? Like, within the people who might hire you — would they be looking for a consultant? Would they be paying for a consultant?

[00:09:19] – Frankie
It’s a really good point. If they were on LinkedIn, searching for somebody, is that the word they would put in? If it is — use it.

[00:09:28] – Steve
I mean, maybe you could be a bit cheekier with it. Maybe you could be a “consultant who also does stuff”? There must be a term that is used, and you need to be using that term. And, if that term is consultant, I wouldn’t feel bad about using the word consultant.

[00:09:43] – Frankie
Own it.

[00:09:44] – Steve
Beyond what you call yourself, the other question is, “what advice can you give someone wanting to go freelance when it’s about services and outcomes rather than outputs?”

[00:09:54] – Frankie
It is a tricky situation to be in, particularly if you’ve been in one agency for a long time. There are certain types of jobs that are quite hard to show your worth, like on a website or whatever. I feel like this is one of those jobs. It’s like — “how do I show that I have made change and had an impact for the clients that I’ve worked for through this agency?”

And then, as we’ve mentioned on other episodes, can you even talk about the work you’ve been doing with this agency? Can you even name who those clients are? You’ve probably done this already, but, look at your contract and speak to a lawyer or whatever, or ask your employer even — what are the rules around what I can and can’t say about the work that I’ve been doing here in terms of my next move? Because it’s very difficult for anybody to be in that position where you might not be able to talk about agency work that you’ve done. But, it’s particularly difficult when it’s not a visual, or tangible thing; like a design or a video. That’s even more difficult to communicate.

Ideally, in this scenario, the things you want to do to build trust and to establish yourself as a freelance business is to show that you’ve worked with these amazing people and “here are the things that they’ve said about the work that I’ve done.” You want testimonials, social proof, all of that stuff would be great. And I would also say in this scenario, more than ever, you want a case-study-style portfolio that’s like — “here’s the problem, here’s what I did, here’s what they did that was amazing”. But that’s all very difficult if you can’t talk about it, or the access to those things is limited.

[00:11:35] – Steve
If I was planning this ahead, I would think it helps (and maybe you’ve already done this), to sort of build up your position as an expert. I think the ability to be seen, I don’t know, speaking at events, or writing blog posts about stuff, or being on LinkedIn contributing in a helpful way. These are ways that people will get to know you and build your network. But also, I bet you have built up a pretty extensive network, including people who have worked at the agency and then gone. Even though yes, you’ve grown from 50 to 5,000 — I’m sure there must be people who must have left and gone elsewhere who hopefully you’ve still stayed in touch with.

I think a lot of the initial work you might get will come from having conversations. Having coffees. Just reaching out to that network that you have built, rather than about the website that you’re about to build and things like that. And then slowly, people will start to think — “oh yeah, I know somebody who could do with that… Colin!” And you go, and you have another conversation, and before you know it, you’re in there for a couple of days consulting. Then suddenly, you’ve got a real testimonial outside of this agency.

Yeah. I think that kind of real, personal, one-on-one way of going, alongside positioning yourself as an expert and creating content around that, and going to events and so on is… I think that’s what I would do.

[00:13:10] – Frankie
So true. Put down the trowel. Get out of the garden. And…

[00:13:16] – Steve
Oh, because he’s on gardening leave!! I wondered what the hell you were talking about.

[00:13:21] – Frankie
The trowel!

[00:13:22] – Steve
I was thinking. What? Where’s the trowel come from?

[00:13:25] – Frankie
He’s in his garden!

[00:13:26] – Steve
Okay. ‘Gardening’ leave. Yeah. Gotcha.

[00:13:28] – Frankie
Ultimately, I’m saying, you make a great point. Talking to people one-on-one in a sort of like ‘unoffice hours’ style way, having loads of conversations. Essentially, presenting yourself to your existing network — “This is what I’m doing now. This is how I can help you”. Even if none of those conversations are actually going to lead to a paid gig, (hopefully some of them will). You need your network to be on board with this shift and to see you in the way that you want to be seen.

And, yeah, now is the time to do that. You’re getting paid and you’re not working for the agency. That’s my understanding of gardening leave? I might be incorrect! Use that time. Build that momentum. Word of mouth. Make that shift, like social shift in people’s eyes, I guess — “I’m not doing that anymore. I’m going to be doing this. Let’s have a chat about that”.

[00:14:16] – Steve
You want to create some kind of website, some sort of online presence so that, as your name gets passed around amongst these people you’re going to be having your coffees with, people who go, “oh, who? Colin Parks?” — they can come and check out your website. You want something for them to look at, even if that’s then mainly sending them back to LinkedIn to wherever.

Also, speaking of LinkedIn, yes, it’s hard to talk about, perhaps legally, the things that you’ve worked on. But, what about recommendations? As in, LinkedIn’s own testimonial system. Maybe there’s people that you’ve worked with closely within the agency who can still give you a recommendation; as well as people who are clients, or something like that.

And honestly, I know freelancers who have done similar things to this, and a key part to it has been them coming across as a real… I don’t want to say ‘thought leader’, though some of them are, but they are definitely experts who write or create content about that field, and explore it. And therefore, it’s kind of like putting them right at the top, isn’t it? It’s like elevating them to say: “Look how much I consider this and I love it and I’m involved in it.”

And then, those people, because they’re creating content, suddenly get asked to speak at events, or do a webinar, because that’s just the way these things work. We’ve talked about it so many times, but it really specifically works when you’re in that consultant — or however you want to phrase it — space. Because that’s the thing, as a consultant, you want people to see you as an expert. So, put yourself out there as an expert. Talk about the thing, explore the thing. Explore the potential future of the thing. In doing so, you can tell stories about things you’ve done in the past.

[00:16:28] – Frankie
What did Laura Mingozzi-Marsh say at the beginning of this episode? “Just talk to people. That’s the answer to most problems in the world.”

[00:16:36] – Steve
Tell you what, we could make this podcast a lot shorter if we just gave that answer to each one.

[00:16:41] – Frankie
It’s true, though! You’re right. Talk to people. Tell them what you’re doing. Tell them the stuff that you know. Establish yourself in a particular position. The cash will be rolling in, in no time.

[00:16:55] – Steve
Okay, have you got any comments for Colin? Have you done something like this? Is this speaking to you? Are you going through it? Have you been through it? Have you, maybe, hired people who have done this? What do you think about the word consultant as well? Let us know.